Another Betfair Forum Ban

Great job boys, another fine nights work, you can give yourselves a pat on the back for your efforts.

I’m referring to a mini war of attrition that’s being going on since the beginning of the year on the Betfair forums (or maybe longer if you take into account the comments of one particular poster).  I’ve got three accounts with Betfair, all previously funded and used, the oldest one of which goes back to 2002.  All of these accounts are in my own name and bear my current address etc, no false details anywhere, in other words I play by the rules.

For anyone that’s familiar with the Betfair forums you’ll know that it’s a melting pot of all types.  Some are good posters, some are bad, some very prolific, others don’t post very often, but at the end of the day it’s an adult forum (supposedly).  But there are those on there that appear to have their own little agenda going and will do pretty much anything to get the upper hand.  Sadly it’s at the expense of others and it’s getting worse.

In the good old days you could call someone a coont if the situation warranted it and that would be it, the posters would agree to disagree.  Forum moderation was conspicuous by it’s apparent absence but that changed in 2004 or thereabouts.  That would be around the time I received my first forum ban for swearing (woooo bad boy, and in an adult forum as well…oh the shame of it).  It wasn’t a lifer ban just a three month stint I think but my recollection is a little hazy.  The mods saw something they didn’t like and that was that.

Eventually I got my posting privileges back and all was well for many years.  My posting style didn’t change and to this day never has.  I tend to read a lot on the forums.  I soak as much up as I can and in the early days I avoided Chit Chat like the plague as it was basically a forum of nothing…the top twenty threads would all have been created by the same guy “What’s your favourite <insert word here>”…the old timers will remember that very well.  A waste of time and a waste of effort.

Years later we still get subjected to similar banal  posts though not as frequently thankfully, however there lurk some trolls whose life work it seems is to basically set about upsetting (or trying to upset) others, some of whom are either too timid to respond or smart enough not to rise to the bait.  I fall in neither of those two categories and that has led me to where I appear to find myself today.

It’s fairly simple to put 2+2 together and realise that my primary chatname on Betfair was in fact Swearbox which would be 10 years old next month.  It’s my identity on there and it’s one of the things that all of the veteran posters have that the newbies don’t have…time served.  You live and die by the things you post on those fora.  If you’re a serial twat it doesn’t take long before you get painted with that brush, regardless of how many times you change your username after bans, shit sticks and leopards don’t change their spots.  Conversely if, in general, your posts are helpful or informative or just plain funny you get a reputation for being ‘one of the lads’ or a good guy, call it what you will.  Either way your identity is everything on there.  Not that I care about thread count but a popular guy can generate a tremendous post count on a nothing thread.  Similarly a ‘hated’ forumite can do the same.  That said there are those on there that try as they might they hardly ever seem to garner any interest as a result of previous transgressions that have shown them up for who they are, malicious trolling types that the forum doesn’t trust and doesn’t like.

So back to the present.  In my last post on this subject a few days ago I outlined the circumstances surrounding the ban of my Swearbox username so no need to go over old ground.  Subsequently it appears that I was reported by a certain forumite and that forumite started a thread on the Football forum gloating about how he had wanted me removed ‘since day 1’ – now bear in mind I’d only come across this idiot a few months prior, he being a relatively new member, albeit with a big mouth – and how he drew me in and ultimately reported me to TSEG.  What a way to run your life.  He becomes the biggest mouth on the forum and when someone like me comes along and takes issue with some of the things he said (like many many others did I might add) he decided I’m too much to handle so created a plan to have me removed.  Way to go son, way to go.

Well, after figuring out what had been done by whom I dropped to his level and within a week or two of my ban I did the same to him.  I’m not proud of it, in fact I hated doing it as grasses are the lowest form of life on the forums, but there’s no way I was going to allow that peon to continue posting after he did what he did.  It’s done and it’s history.

So we move forward.  I mentioned that I have 3 accounts.  The other two usernames associated with those accounts were active so I tentatively used them to let other forumites know the score about how I had come to be banned.  Threads had been created in both the football forum and chit chat about the ban.  They were created by the guy that reported me (on footy) and by a poster (on chit chat) who is widely regarded as probably the biggest arsehole on the entire Betfair platform.  He is probably best known as Stretch Armstrong but that name was probably 10 usernames ago.  He currently posts as Quality_Treat and I have no reservations in stating that as he is ultimately to blame for the latest ban that gave rise to this blog post.

Quality_Treat (previous banned usernames include Stretch Armstrong, Powerhoofer, Chough, Wheelbarrow_Oil, Kerchingston_Upon_Sea, Gloom_Merchant just to name a few) and I don’t get along.  He first came to my notice as Powerhoofer and we exchanged a few unpleasantries.  Eventually he went into meltdown mode and either got reported or the mods spotted it and he was gone.  Every other username has followed suit…meltdown then ban.  The thing is when you’ve been around a while you get into a groove with a certain posting style and it’s not hard to spot who is who, even after a ban and a new name surfaces.  That fact sees to it that he’s easy to see each time he returns.  The same rules apply to myself and this idiot spotted one of my other usernames in use and basically outed me on the forum as being a previously banned poster.  That alone is reason enough for others who have felt hard done by in the past (I’m thinking along the lines of Frimpong here who I believe is exchange banned as well as forum banned) to drop a line in to Betfair to complain and report me.  In this case though I don’t believe Frimpong (I won’t list your current username) had anything to do with it.

The troll in the last paragraph decided it would be great fun to expose my name to a couple of people on the Football forum, namely the guy who I reported and his ally, a not too bright individual but harmless enough.  The troll wasn’t even aware that one of the two guys he was going to out me to was banned.  So, on a footy thread last night (Ath Bilbao v Mirandes) the deed was done.  Troll passes info on to thicko and thicko passes info on to banned big mouth and banned bigmouth emails Betfair and another username bites the dust…plus an IP ban for good measure.  You would think we were all still in infant school but alas this is what grown men do to pass the time.  Give yourselves a pat on the back boys.

I mailed Betfair this morning and outlined a few things including how I resented reporting the guy that had my Swearbox account banned.  I even intimated that his ‘crime’ of swearing wasn’t hardly a crime and that he should be given his posting privileges back as my report was simply tit for tat.  But of course he is unaware of that as I have no way of communicating the fact to him…unless of course he’s the guy that’s searching for this blog on Google.com.au…great things site stats, they tell you a lot.

The purpose of this post is to highlight the fact once again that the Betfair forums are in complete disarray.  There are guys running riot on there using their umpteenth username gained as a result of supplying false details to open an account purely to get access to the forum.  These same people are fucking over decent guys just because they think it’s fun to do.  I wouldn’t like to walk to the end of the room in their shoes I really wouldn’t.  Not sure if this is my final word on the subject as I haven’t heard back from Betfair yet.  Hopefully it’s good news when it comes, if not then I guess the forums will be another couple of people less in the near future because I’ve already stepped beyond the line I had set for myself and I can’t turn back the clock.

Tick tock………

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28 Responses to Another Betfair Forum Ban

  1. askspain says:

    Does Betfair email you to tell you you are banned?
    I reported a guy who went crazy and was abusing people all over the place today. The thread was pulled.
    Then another thread was posted about the thread that was pulled.
    That has now been pulled along with others.

    • swearbox says:

      Yep, they send you an email to let you know that you are banned and they give you a reason for why you are banned though they don’t tell you how you came to be banned. Let’s say you call someone’s mother a whore (for example) and the forumite you directed your comment at reports you it’s fairly certain that you’ll be banned and the email will detail exactly what words got you banned BUT they won’t tell you how they came to know about your post (they won’t say whether or not you were reported or your post was simply spotted by an eagle eyed moderator).

      I’ve written a lot about Betfair forum bans and I think the majority of them are quite simply ridiculous. There’s just no fairness when it comes to dishing out the punishment. I’m on a LIFER ban for hinting that another forumite might be a ‘batty boy’…a guy with whom I’d had a tremendous amount of back and forth banter with in the previous months. WTF?

      Anyway, don’t get me started with the idiots that moderate the forums, they’re simply no good at doing their job (moderating) preferring instead to let the lunatics preside over the running of the asylum (they gave them the Report button and now it’s a free for all – everyone is reporting everyone). Well done the guys at TSE Global for fucking up what used to be somewhere you could call a spade a spade, tell someone to bugger off if you thought they were wide of the mark, and in some cases even discuss sport.

      Thanks for dropping in to comment by the way and be careful what you say out there in Betfair Forum land – sometimes the most innocuous looking comments can land you in hot water.

  2. askspain says:

    Well the guy who was being a prat got banned. His profile is inaccessible now. I did not intend him to be ban but he was calling half the forum Nazis, Nazi cock suckers and one poster a kiddie fiddler after he had psychoanalysed him. I thought enough is enough with this prat.
    So I pushed the report button. The whole thread got pulled.

    It seems someone else got banned the previous day. Some of the forumites felt posts had been removed. No idea why.

    A forumite created a new thread to say the old thread had disappeared. We discussed what had happened and then I discovered I then got banned when I tried to get back into the forum.
    No email yet.
    I will be interested to see what this is about.
    I quoted what he had said and why this had triggered my response. I could well imagine I have been banned for quoting a banned comment.
    If this is I will try to appeal but I will have to wait.
    I will be able to concentrate on betting instead of the forum.
    It may just be a 3 month ban as it is a “first offence.”

    • swearbox says:

      LOL…it seems I’ve been missing out on a lot of comedy. You may well have ended up in the sin bin for quoting something that someone else had posted up that got them the boot. The mods don’t discriminate between the good guys and the bad guys. I think they must have some sort of commission structure in place…the more forumites they ban the more they get paid 🙂

      Sometimes it can be hard getting their attention if you fall foul of them. Remember you aren’t dealing with Betfair you’re dealing with TSE Global who look after the Forum on Betfair’s behalf. If you do have a hard time getting them to respond a good trick is to quote their own Terms & Conditions where they state how fairly they treat everyone and how quickly they will respond to your problem/email. It took me several goes to get their attention after I got banned. Every now and then I drop them a line to ask them to overturn the ban but the answer is always the same stock copy and paste bullshit response. Whatever you do (unless you really don’t care at all) try and be polite – calling them a bunch of pricks won’t help your case. Somewhere on my blog I’ve stated that I have 3 active Betfair accounts – all usernames associated with the forums are lifer banned for the batty boy comment I referred to earlier. I’m also IP banned in case I create yet another account just to use for posting purposes. I did manage to circumvent the IP ban by going through a proxy server and was able to post on my third account before they actually bundled it in with my other two and banned it (it actually lasted almost two months after the life ban was dished out before they got round to adding it to the list).

      It does suit my purpose to create another account purely for posting purposes and I’ll get around to doing it but it’s not actually a priority. I know I can get around the IP ban but one has to be careful as there are those that have had Exchange bans dished out for contravening forum rules (I think someone pissed someone else off who was rather well connected). I can think of one forumite in particular who is exchange and forum banned but he’s managed to creep onto the forum – it’s an open secret yet the mods are either oblivious are can’t be arsed to give him the boot.

      As for me I’m learning to live without the forum a bit better these days – i was livid at first as I’d been a member of Betfair for almost ten years when they fucked me over – my ten yr anniversary was on March 19th (but who’s counting?). I’m currently working on a betting project that might earn me a bit of money and I’m fairly excited but more will be said about that in future blog posts.

      Hope you get your account back as I know what a pain it is when you can’t respond to something that you really want to. Believe it or not I miss the ‘computer help wanted’ posts the most as that’s my thing and I normally like to post up some help or advice…their loss now, unfortunately. I’m dying to know the username of the joker who posted the nazi abuse…please share and I’ll keep it to myself 🙂

      • swearbox says:

        Ha ha…I was just clearing out some old mail and here’s an email that was generated after I got red carded in 2004 for saying ‘bollocks’ on the forum…basically another forumite emailed me to ask what other words were considered taboo so I wrote to Betfair for clarification….here’s their reply…

        >From: Swearbox
        >To: para para
        >Subject: Re: naughty betfair words
        >Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 14:35:13 -0800 (PST)
        >
        >Hi Para…here is their list, followed by my mail back to them…
        >
        >A least of offending words below.
        >
        >fuck
        >fuk
        >shit
        >bollocks
        >bollox
        >bastard
        >prick
        >wanker
        >cunt
        >tosser
        >twat
        >arsehole
        >dickhead
        >bitch (unless referring to greyhounds)
        >w@nker
        >slut
        > insults towards presenters
        >
        >
        >Hope this helps with your quire.
        >Kind regards,
        >Betfair Helpdesk
        >
        >………………………………………………now my reply,
        >
        >Thank you. In addition I would like Betfair to incorporate this list in a
        >posting or notice somewhere on the site as it would serve as a reminder to
        >myself and many other basically decent forumites which words are
        >unacceptable. Please advise me as to when this can be made so.
        >
        >Regards,
        >Swearbox

        I never did get them to incorporate my suggestion at the end there.

  3. askspain says:

    The guy who went off the deep end was shay666.
    I think he is also posting as BinLadensBruvver.
    He was posting in normal English and then started in a pigeon English. He said he wife edited his posts and that’s why these weren’t pigeon English sometimes and then also said his brother posted.

    • swearbox says:

      I’m assuming that these are on either the Footy forum or Chit Chat. I must poke my head in to see if mr Bin Laden has a posting style I am familiar with…thx for the info.

  4. askspain says:

    I got the banning email this morning.
    It does not say what comment resulted in the ban which appears to be a life ban.
    BinLadensBruvver who set up a thread bemoaning Shay666’s ban and blaming me, has also been banned now and that thread removed.
    Shay666 said he had multiple accounts and I suspect BinLadensBruvver was another of Shay666’s accounts.

    • swearbox says:

      That sucks. It’s one thing getting banned for saying something out of line but when someone else gets you the boot because they actively target you from the start is the pits. I know where you’re coming from because that’s how I got the lifetime ban. The prick that engineered it even gloated about it and how he’d set me up in a post after my ban was confirmed. It’s things like that that really piss me off. Have they told you it’s a lifer ban or indicated how long you’ll be banned for? For what it’s worth here’s the exact email I was sent when they banned me in January this year…the bit in bold is where they point out the severity…

      “Dear Rob

      Following recent postings made by you within the Betfair forum which clearly breach our terms and conditions, we have had no option but to revoke your forum postings privileges. The forum is an area of the site made available by us in order to allow users to communicate with each other, to exchange ideas and discuss topical issues etc.

      We have a responsibility to try and ensure that the forum is a pleasant area for all our users, and postings such as: “Heading to the gym ? Is that some kind of euphemism for I”m off for a bit of batty boy back door action down Bondi beach ?” are not acceptable.

      It is with regret that we have had to take this action, but there are no plans to reverse this decision in the future.

      Kind Regards

      TSE Global”

  5. askspain says:

    Now they have told me after I chased them.
    This is in the context of several threads over several month, which of course the moderators will not be aware of.

    An American guy had stated the British would have been better off to have kept out of WWII.
    I agreed and had said if the politicians were so inclined to enter a war they would have been better to let Hitler get on with it and let the Germans and Russians slug it out first.

    So one of the banning comments was

    “They should have let Hitler get on with it.”

    There was another discussion on other threads about the holocaust.
    There are lots of films of the camps at Dachau with all the bodies piled up.
    The Dachau camp has since 1960 been accepted as not being a camp where any alleged homicidal gassing went on.

    I was asked if I believed in the holocaust to which I replied (and expanded considerably)

    “holocaust – if we are calling this gas chambers, which it usually is.
    There were no gas chambers except to kill lice”

    “There were fumigation buildings to kill lice in an attempt to stop the typhus epidemics which is the reason most of the people on the films you see were dead”

    This is historically correct.

    These 3 comments were what I got banned for.
    No swearing. Just discussion.

    All taken out of the context.
    In the UK it is perfectly legal and proper.

    When you see the stuff on the racing forum from people I believe to be moderators this is ridiculous.

    One forumite said to another he should be banned to which the other replied he could not be banned (because he was a moderator).

  6. askspain says:

    The other forumites are wondering what is going on and how stupid the moderators are being.

    http://community.betfair.com/politics/go/thread/view/94150/29054063/threads-going-missing

    • swearbox says:

      Interesting post mate…I checked out that thread on the politics forum which led me to the following thread on chit chat
      http://community.betfair.com/chit_chat/go/thread/view/94038/29047429/revengeofpaddy-about?pg=1

      seems my old mate bob_terwilliger is sniffing about to find out who’s who again (no fucking surprises there). He’s the sort you simply must not let slip what your old username was if you slip in under the radar with a new name as he’ll grass you up without hesitation. His big beef is getting banned from the exchange (so he says) after pissing off someone on the horsey forum who was a bit better connected than he thought.

      I wasn’t aware that Revengeofpaddy had got the boot. I must email him to find out why. Fucking place is slowly being razed to the ground. It’ll be more sterile than a surgeon’s scalpel before long if they keep banning the characters.

  7. askspain says:

    I wonder if there are new moderators and or it is the Twitter thing where the guy got sent to jail when he commented on the footballer.
    I suspect it is the this Twitter business.
    Betfair do not want any bother or bad press and so if in doubt hand out a life ban.

    TBH if you aren’t talking on the betting forums as I rarely do, it does not matter where you are posting. If the moderators aren’t too bright then this is what happens when they wade into discussions they have no knowledge of and no interest.

    It just shows how little the system thinks of any of us. Banned for life without discussion. If there were an alternative it would be right to just shut down the account and move elsewhere.

    I will get used to not going on the forum. I never used to use it.
    I did hear Paddy got blasted the day before yesterday.
    Pretty bad show altogether.

    • swearbox says:

      I have just mailed the following to the Forum mods for a laugh….

      Hi,

      It’s come to my attention that a whole bunch more forumites have recently been given the Red Card by your esteemed department. At the rate you’re going there won’t be anyone left. I’m writing to ask that you overturn my ban(s) so that I can boost the numbers back up by three, one for each account I hold. I know it’s not much but you never know, I could create a thread and talk to myself using all my three account names and create a really interesting discussion that will have people who don’t normally post flocking to the forum to take part thereby saving the Betfair Community from extinction. Whaddya think?

      Rob

  8. Bob says:

    swearbox can i ask who “Subsequently it appears that I was reported by a certain forumite and that forumite started a thread on the Football forum gloating about how he had wanted me removed ‘since day 1′” refers to. hope you’re well by the way

  9. weekoont says:

    any ideas on getting back from a ban.

    I can access forum but won’t let me post

    someone must know how to get around it?

  10. askspain says:

    It doesn’t bother me much now that I cannot post. People set up other accounts. I think trying to get BF to reverse a ban is pointless. If you want to post then close your BF account and open another. I think you might have to have another bank account. I don’t know how it works, if they cross reference.
    As far as I’m concerned I waste less time for not having posting rights.

  11. laraib says:

    I wrote a letter to betfair (affiliates@betfair.com, info@betfair.com, communications@betfair.com, education@betfair.com, exchangegames@betfair.com) several time, but they didn’t reply so then I posted these contents through Betfair Trading and Sports Betting Forum. Next time as I login to the forum I get a message: (You have been banned for the following reason: Spam Date the ban will be lifted: Never)
    Letter to Betfair
    SUBJECT: I am from Pakistan, gambling is punishable under the law of the land but I am Betfair customer.
    I am from Pakistan (gambling restricted country punishable under the law of the land) but I am customer/Account holder of Betfair through an affiliate of Betfair and also anybody can open an account effortlessly without any age nationality or the Identity Verification Process significance.
    The Affiliates are operating from Pakistan having offices in all major cities of the country. I and thousands of Pakistani citizens are wagering (betting) on sports via the Affiliates web sites simply downloading the betting software login entering password provide by them.
    We deposits money in Pakistani currency (PK RUPPES) they exchange the money in UK pounds (£) at the rate PKR: 150= 1 UK (£) and wining amount they pay back @ 1£= 149 PKR.
    Despite these laws, however, I and thousands of other are thriving illegal underground wagering (betting) with Betfair through Affiliates in direct defiance of governmental sanction.
    Even with the fact, that Betfair is well aware of the case. I had already given this information to Betfair several times in past years but ruthlessly neglected by betfair.
    My question; is this sound good that we are doing so?
    Will their will be a day that government Of Pakistan will take notice of it and Betfair will confiscate all the Affiliates accounts and so the Affiliates will impound our accounts?
    Please reply.
    Best Regards,
    A citizen of Pakistan
    Email: newworld786@live.com

    • swearbox says:

      I don’t rightly know why you wrote a letter to Betfair in the first place. Posting a message on their forum drawing attention to any illegal activities that may get Betfair in the shit is a sure way to get banned. I still don’t fully understand your complaint (apart from the fact that they forum banned you)…if you are still able to gamble in your country by whatever means then just keep quiet and carry on would be my advice…and fuck the government and their laws.

      • laraib says:

        My query: is this sound good that we are doing so?
        Will there will a day that government Of Pakistan will become aware of this Illegal activity, directing Betfair through UK government not to open accounts of Pakistani citizens and to disqualified all the active accounts. And then Betfair will seize all the Affiliates accounts and so the Affiliates will impound our accounts accordingly, so then we will lose the deposited and winning money. If not Betfair have to reply and give us guarantee in case.

        • swearbox says:

          I’m thinking that any money you deposit in any Affiliate account belongs to you not Betfair. My concern, if I were you, would be whether or not the Affiliates that you place your money with keep your money if things go wrong.

  12. I think you didn’t follow me please read carefully.
    WHAT IS BETFAIR AFFILIATE PROGRAMME?
    The company group or individual registered with Betfair as Affiliates having web site acknowledged and agreed by Betfair.
    What first time Affiliate have to do?
    1. Sign up to the Betfair Affiliate Programme by completing the online application form of betfair.
    2. The Betfair will offers to Affiliate a wide range of marketing tools to help promote Betfair programme.
    3. The Affiliates will receive commission on all the players that Affiliates refer to Betfair, either in the form of a percentage of the revenue they generate or as a one-off (CPA) bounty payment.

    BETFAIR PROMO.
    Welcome to the Betfair Affiliate Programme
    Are visitors to your website interested in betting on sports, casino or poker? You could be earning commission just by referring them to Betfair – the world’s biggest online betting company.
    By joining the Betfair Affiliate Programme you will be affiliating your business with the most innovative, exciting and revolutionary gaming site on the internet and our personalised service will help to make each and every partnership as profitable for the affiliate as possible.

    Now according to above the AFFILIATE are bound to the rule and regulation of Betfair on paper Agreement (and any dispute, controversy, proceedings or claim of whatever nature arising out of or in any way relating to the Agreement or its formation) shall be governed by and construed in accordance with English law and the parties hereby irrevocably submit to the non-exclusive jurisdiction of the courts of England and Wales. (http://affiliates.betfair.com/page.aspx?p=7&l=1)
    But we are bound to Affiliate terms and condition which is unknown not is written only verbally, no any governing law and jurisdictions;
    That’s why I am saying
    (Will there will a day that government Of Pakistan will become aware of this Illegal activity, directing Betfair through UK government not to open accounts of Pakistani citizens and to disqualified all the active accounts. And then Betfair will seize all the Affiliate accounts and so the Affiliate will impound our accounts accordingly, so then we will lose the deposited and winning money. If not Betfair have to reply and give us guarantee in case)?

    • swearbox says:

      (Will there will a day that government Of Pakistan will become aware of this Illegal activity, directing Betfair through UK government not to open accounts of Pakistani citizens and to disqualified all the active accounts. And then Betfair will seize all the Affiliate accounts and so the Affiliate will impound our accounts accordingly, so then we will lose the deposited and winning money. If not Betfair have to reply and give us guarantee in case)?

      In a word NO.

      All a Betfair affiliate does is advertise and promote Betfair through either a blog or another web page of some sort in exchange for a commission from Betfair if their advert results in someone opening a Betfair account.

      When you open a Betfair account, regardless of whether you are in a country that is forbidden from gambling online, and you deposit money into your Betfair account AND THEN FOR SOME REASON YOUR ACCOUNT IS TERMINATED your money will be returned to you. The Government can’t take it, the Betfair affiliate can’t take it and Betfair can’t take it.

  13. derrick says:

    Can someone name me some of the forbidden jurisdictions pertaining to betfair participation? Thanx.

    • swearbox says:

      Things to avoid:-

      1. Swearing in general…everyone does it but sure as eggs is eggs when you do it you’ll get booted
      2. Swearing at someone else…they grass you up & you’re gone
      3. Racist comments…there’s always gonna be someone waiting to grass you up for stuff like that
      4. Homophobic comments….same as 3. above
      5. Spamming your website / business / business opportunity / competitors websites is frowned upon
      6. Threatening behaviour…you’ll get grassed and booted

      But worry not…if you signed up AFTER the 10th of August last year you won’t be getting on their forum anyway…it’s currently unavailable to new members. You are very welcome to come and join my fledgeling forum where a bunch of those banned from Betfair (and some that aren’t) hang out and shoot the shit….and you won’t get banned for any of the above (unless you’re aiming your abuse at me personally and even then I might keep you around to toy with…. ;-))…seriously though, go to http://www.betfex.com and join us…then you can take the piss out of Bob Vegas and Paddy like I do.

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